An Interview with Sannion, or My Life, up to this point

EUNOMIUS: I see you've finally got your personal web-page up. Congratulations. I know you've been working on it for awhile. SANNION: I have. It's not easy. I mean, I can go on for hours and hours about the littlest thing, the most obscure subject, but when it comes to myself, I clam up. We are strangers to no one, more than to ourselves. I forgot who said it, but it's true. EUN: Interesting. Why do you think that's so? SAN: Well, I think it has to do with the nature of the Ego. Who we are - that thing that makes us uniquely us. It is not a constant, save perhaps in the fact that it is constantly shifting. Every thought or encounter we have irrevocably changes us. So we are never really the same, from one moment to the next. Heraclitus said that you can never walk into the same stream twice, because it - and you - have undergone countless changes. Well, Ego is just like that. Everyone is constantly changing, but in other people, we don't see the degree to which they change, unless it is drastic. But when we look within, there is nothing to hide behind. We see ourselves as we are - flux. Hence, there can be no true autobiography, only an external biography, and even that is merely a portrait of how we were, at a certain time, under certain circumstances. EUN: So that's why you invented me, and this whole process of internal dialogue? That you might view yourself as an outsider might view you? SAN: Uhm. . . yeah. That's it. Actually, I wanted to get my picture up, so people could see what a handsome guy I am. But I didn't want to JUST put up a picture, you know? So I'm going to interrogate myself, go over my life's story. Is that okay? You don't mind? EUN: Hey, you're the one that invented me. If you think it's all right, then so do I. SAN: Cool. I'm glad we're agreed. So, where should we start? EUN: How about the beginning? SAN: No, no good story ever begins at the beginning. Take the Iliad. It begins right at the end of the Siege of Troy, weeks before Ilium is about to fall. A lesser poet would have begun the tale with the Judgement of Paris, or at a similar point in the cycle. Not Homer, and in so doing he shows the hand of a master, supremely disciplined. Besides, this isn't a biography, set out chronologically. It's an exploration of me. A biopsy, rather than a biography. EUN: Okay, where shall we begin then? SAN: You've got me. EUN: Well, you're a religious man. It seems to be your driving interest. You're always talking about it. Let's begin there. SAN: Good idea, Eunomius. Now I remember why I invented you. EUN: You are too kind. SAN: No, I'm not. Obviously YOU don't know me very well. But you're right. Religion is my driving force, my incurable mania. I've always been interested in it. It has fascinated me since I was a child. While other kids were out in the playground, I was sitting off on the sides, contemplating the Deep Issues that have occupied the world's great minds from the beginning. Kids would come up to me, and be like, "Have you seen the new G. I. Joe," and I'd be like, "Doesn't the problem of Evil invalidate our basic assumptions about God." I was off in my own little world. I've mellowed out in my old age, learned to find balance in things. "Without our intellect, we are not fully human. Without our heart, we are not fully alive." I forget who said that. EUN: Did this religious preoccupation of yours ever cause you any trouble? SAN: Well, yes, once. I think I was in first grade at the time. I'm not sure, it was a long, long time ago. (Oh, I'm so old.) Well, I was going to Parochial school at the time. My mother sacrificed to get me in there, scrimped and saved, and even took on a job cleaning a friend's house to get me in there. My mother was always concerned about education, bless her heart. Well, these friends of hers were Doctors, Pediatricians, if I remember right. They had a daughter, about my own age. Well they, too, were very concerned about her education, and they were also very liberal. They thought that she should know the facts of life, how our reproductive systems work and such, and since I was about the same age, they decided to teach me as well. Well, this was a great thing, learning about how our bodies worked, and as you can imagine, I listened very attentively to her lessons. Now, shortly after this, at the Parochial school, the subject of the Virgin Mary came up. I had learned all about where babies came from, and what sex was all about, and what virgin meant, and I was proud of my knowledge. I wished to share it with the rest of the class, and with the Nuns, who obviously didn't know a whole lot about sex, and where babies came from, or else they would have known that Mary could not have been pregnant, and remained a virgin. Needless to say, my classmates were all eager to hear about reproduction, and the Nuns most definitely were not. They took me out of the class, called my mother to come get me, and asked her never to bring me back. I feel bad about it sometimes, when I think about all that my mom did to get me into that school - but I really don't think that the Nuns would have appreciated my thoughts on the Trinity. EUN: I'm sure they wouldn't. So, was it your experience with the Parochial School and the Nuns which turned you off from Christianity? SAN: Oh no, I continued to believe in it for many years, up until I was 13 or 14, although I had begun to have some difficulties with it earlier than that. EUN: Such as? SAN: Oh, the usual, I suppose. Little incongruities, like why wouldn't God want Adam and Eve to eat from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and why didn't He want them to become immortal? Certainly if God was all-knowing, He had to know from the beginning that they would eat from it. So why then did He punish them? That was the first one, the biggy. From there questions arose, one after another, like where did Cain's wife come from; why was God so wrathful in the Bible, but said to be loving by the Pastors; how did Noah fit all of the animals in the Ark; what exactly did God accomplish by sending His Son to be murdered that He couldn't have accomplished in a different way; why on earth would people want to live on forever and ever in Heaven, with nothing to do; questions like these, until I was left very, very confused. And when I went to the Youth Pastors and Ministers with my questions, I never could get a straight answer. So I began searching other faiths, reading everything about them that I could get my hands on. EUN: Did you experience a complete separation from Christianity? SAN: Oh no, I've never been entirely free of it. At the most unexpected times, something would happen that would bring it back into my life. For instance, I'd come across the writings of a great Christian, like St. Francis, Thomas Merton, or Lactantius, and it would really move me. Or I'd discover some esoteric aspect of Christianity, like the Gnostics or the Culdees, and think, "Well, that's not all bad, I could accept that." Then some idiot like Rep. Bob Barr or Jerry Fallwell would shoot his mouth off, and I'd be like, "I'm not touching that with a ten-foot pole." I went through phases of intense attraction and repulsion: I'd go from profound, almost fanatical worship of Jesus to blaming all of the world's ills on those atheistic Christians. I believe that I have a more balanced view now. I can admire Jesus, appreciate his teachings, the beauty of the Christian tradition, without letting it dominate my life, define me by my opposition to it. EUN: Hmmm. . . interesting. Did other faiths catch your interest with a similar degree of intensity? SAN: Oh yes, very much so. Taoism and Buddhism affected my life greatly. I recognize that they are different religions, with almost antethical views, but I discovered them at about the same time, and studied them concurrently. How I discovered them is kind of interesting. After my negative experiences with Christianity, I sort of went overboard, setting off in a completely different direction. I became a dialectical materialist. Evolution was incontrovertible fact. There was no God, outside of weak men's dreams. Capitalist America was innately evil, since it was based on patriarchal Christian assumptions. Communism was much more ethical, honest, and likely to save mankind in this, his darkest hour. Basically, I went nuts. And then I discovered the Tao. I remember it with great vividness. I was working in a used bookstore at the time, and as you can imagine, we tended to get all sorts of strange books. Well, this slim paperback had come in, with the faint print of a grass stem on the cover and the title "Chinese Meditations." Well, like a good dialectical materialist, I believed in the mind, in the intellect, and anything that could help me think more rationally was a good in my book. So I gave it a try. I opened the book at random and began reading. I hadn't read more than half a page when enlightenment struck. It was that sudden, that intense, full-on satori. I don't remember what the passage was. I know it was from the Tao Teh Ching, but I don't remember which verse. Well, I was hooked. I sat there the rest of the night, reading that little book, filled with a growing sense of awe and wonderment. Well, I didn't stop with "Chinese Meditations." I read everything I could find on Taoism, moved on to Buddhism, and became a dyed-in-the-wool mystic. The teachings of Gautama were very influential. Here was a religion that not only preached tolerance, compassion, reverence for life - but actually practiced it. I was impressed by the fact that Buddhism had spread peacefully, without holy wars or genocidal mass conversions, and the Eightfold-path made complete sense to me. I studied the different Buddhist schools, adopted vegetarianism and non-violence, began to meditate, and cultivated peace in my life and in the world around me. EUN: You are not a Buddhist now, are you? What happened? SAN: Well, Buddhism is very disciplined, very restrictive. It's main goal is ultimate liberation - from desire, from passion, from the body, and from the material world. Something inside me just rebelled at the whole idea of a negative soterology. Taoism had taught me to look around, and see the infinite beauty of all things. Buddhism, at least as I understood it, taught that all this was illusion, and that attachment to the illusion was the cause of my suffering. This may well be. I am in no position to make declarative statements concerning ontology. But I know that a man will never attain Nirvana when he is inwardly torn. And I was. There was the poet and the pragmatist. The saint and the hedonist warred within me. At the time I thought it had to be one or the other. So the hedonistic poet won, and I abandoned the Buddha's dharma. EUN: So what did you do then? SAN: Well, I bounced around spiritually, exploring this path and that, until I came upon a faith that allowed me to express both my mystic and my practical sides, that affirmed both the goodness and beauty of the world, and that we were more than just our bodies. That path was Paganism, specifically Wicca. EUN: Now Wicca is a modern religion, right, based on ancient sources? SAN: Yes, it is. And that, ultimately, is the reason that I am not a Wiccan. EUN: Because it is a modern religion? SAN: Not at all. I have no problem with that. It is the worth of a teaching that matters, its truth and relevance, not how old it is. But many people within the Wiccan movement insist on believing that it is an ancient religion - if not the oldest religion, then very close to it. Now this is just silliness. Wicca betrays its late origins in almost every aspect. For instance, its rituals obviously developed from Golden Dawn Ceremonialism and Masonry, with only a few genuinely archaic elements. Whether Gerald Gardner discovered an authentic Witch's Coven, with archaic practices, and added the Masonic elements to it, or whether he added archaic elements to rituals he borrowed from the Magical Lodges, is not for me to say, as I am not a specialist in such matters. But I do know that certain elements i.e. casting the circle, the elementals, and the general liturgy are not to be found in the practices of Classical Paganism, nor likely to be found among European peasants during the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Also, I found Wicca's insistence on a rigidly duotheistic (The Lord and Lady) scheme far too limiting, and its insistence that "all gods are One God, and all goddesses One Goddess" intellectually deficient. To say that Dionysos and Allah are in essence the same God, is to completely misunderstand the fundamental nature of both deities. Allah is all about submission (Ar. islam) while Dionysos is all about liberation and freedom (Gk. eleutherus). Allah forbids intoxicants. Dionysos is revealed through them. Allah is completely transcendent. Dionysos is the most immanent of gods. Hence, one must either be a mystic or unconcerned about the integrity of both deities to believe that. There were other things that I found unfulfilling about Wicca: it's veneration of the feminine (Goddess) to the exclusion of the masculine (God); it's revisionist historicity; it's solipsistic ethics (the Rede, while a good general rule to live by, is too simplistic when one really begins to examine it); it's dependence on magic; and of late, it's complete and utter trendiness. Now, I know that it seems unfair to blame something for being too successful. Obviously it meets the needs of a large number of people - and for a long time, myself included - or else it would not be successful. But when you must constantly disassociate yourself from the ignorant, trendy, wannabe Wiccans, one begins to wonder why one bothers associating oneself with the movement at all. Eventually there came a point when I stopped doing that. EUN: So what do you consider yourself now? SAN: I am an Hellenic Polytheist. EUN: And what is that? SAN: Well, Hellas, of course, is the original and preferred name of Greece, and Polytheist means "many gods". So, basically, I am one who believes in many gods, but prefers the Greek forms and names of those gods. There is more to it. It's not just about taking Greek gods out of Bullfinch and trying to worship them within the context of Wicca or some other system. An intrinsic element of Hellenic Polytheism or Greek Reconstructionism is rediscovering what the ancients believed, how they lived, thought, and worshipped, and then incorporating as much of it as is desirable and possible within the context of modern society. That means that while I reverence the "glory that was Greece, and the wonder that was Rome" and try to incorporate many elements from those cultures into my life, I do think that all elements of those cultures are necessarily desirable in the modern setting, or that I must give up everything that is modern in order to live as they did. Hence, I do not think slavery is necessarily a worthy tradition which must be revived (although it is understandable when one considers the development of culture) nor do I believe that women are naturally inferior to men, and hence should be second-class citizens. Nor would I give up my computer and CD-player, because these things were unknown in the time of Homer. That's just silliness, and by the way, a very unHellenic idea, as the Greeks and to a greater extant the Romans were very open to new ideas and different customs. EUN: You are not a Greek, right, so how can you be an Hellene? SAN: Hellenism, then as well as now, is not about ethnicity, as much as it is about a shared culture. G. W. Bowersack in his book Hellenism in Late Antiquity, has this to say about it: "Hellenism represented language, thought, mythology, and images that constituted an extraordinarily flexible medium of both cultural and religious expression. It was a medium not necessarily antithetical to local or indigenous traditions. On the contrary, it provided a new and more eloquent way of giving voice to them." Hellenism was born when Alexander of Macedon made his first steps beyond the rugged Greek hills, seeking to extend the borders of his father's kingdom into the vast reaches of the East. With him he carried Greek culture, and the peoples whom he made subject came to embrace the new ideas and language, clinging to it long after the remnants of Greek Empire had crumbled. One can see the Hellenic influence in the architecture and plastic arts of places as far apart as England and India, and Greek thought even permeates the work of the Jewish authors of such Biblical texts as Ecclesiastes and the Maccabbean Books, not to mention Philo Judaeus, one of the great Neoplatonic philosophers. Isocrates said, "Greek is defined not by race but by education. All of us, whatever our time and place, who have been shaped by Greek books are in this sense Greek." And of course, many centuries later, this was echoed by Shelley in his immortal statement, "We are all of us Greeks." Western civilization is founded firmly on Greek roots. Therefore anyone who thinks of themselves as Western is entitled to the name Hellene. But since Sicily was an integral component in the spread of Hellenism, and I am by birth Sicilian, I am more entitled to the name than some. EUN: How does Hellenic religion differ from other faiths? SAN: Well, to begin with, Hellenism has always been a very open and tolerant religion, the trial of Socrates for corrupting the youth of Athens and introducing false gods notwithstanding. There was never a normative creed to which all Hellenes must ascribe, and no central authority which decided matters of faith and sought to eliminate heresy. It was accepted that all people must think things out for themselves, and come to their own conclusions about the gods and religious practice. Traditional Greek religion (eusebia) was primarily of a corporate and civic nature, concerned with the proper performance of rituals, not necessarily with what one believed. This is a concept that is difficult to accept by modern people steeped in the Abrahamic faiths, which are concerned almost exclusively with what one believes, and with following the One Right True and Only way to God. That there might be other ways, equally valuable and effective, is an alien concept to these faiths, but not to Hellenism. At an early point in their history, the Greeks looked about at their neighbors - particularly the Egyptians, whom they were a little in awe of, and the Thracians, whom they were a little contemptive of - and saw that their religions differed significantly from their own. Instead of saying, as the Jews had, "Oh look how they have strayed, O God, turning from the true faith - ours - to this abomination. Oh how angry you must be with them!" they said, with Symacchus, "What matters the path by which one seeks the truth? One road alone does not suffice to attain so great a mystery!" EUN: How different the world would be, if this attitude had prevailed. SAN: Perhaps, perhaps not. Men are very hard-headed, and I do not know if there is much that will cause them to do what is contrary to their nature. Alas, the nature of most men is base and ignoble. EUN: That is very cynical. SAN: Perhaps, but one rarely goes broke betting on man's base nature. By the way, Cynic refers to one of the Schools of Philosophy, founded by Diogenes. The story is told of how he sat outside of one of the temples, and waited to find a man who was completely good. They say he waited there the whole of his days. EUN: That is very bleak. And Hellenism is more positive than Buddhism, you say? SAN: In the majority, it is. The Cynics were but one of many Schools, and these days, there are very few who would consider themselves followers of Diogenes. More common is an acceptance of Plato, or, if one is concerned with Ethics, they might consider themselves an Epicurean or Stoic. I find much that is edifying in Epicurus and Marcus Aurelius, but when these and other representatives of their respective schools begin discussing matters that pertain to the gods and our souls, it just doesn't ring true with me. I'm not saying that they're wrong, mind you, just that other philosophies resonate better within me. EUN: Such as? SAN: Well, the latter Neoplatonists, Iamblichus, Sallustius, and the Emperor Julian. I like Porphry and Plotinus, but I don't think I understand a lot of what they have to say. In fact, I know that I don't! EUN: Is Philosophy very important in Hellenism? SAN: In the original, it was supremely important. Some could say that it was THE religion of the Greeks, that eusebia and the mysteries were just ways of dramatizing philosophy. But it's not so important these days. There aren't many with formal training as Philosophers, which is okay, I suppose. Perhaps not okay, but it's the way things are. That is not to say that Hellenes today do not think about the Deep Issues or are no longer lovers of wisdom, because they are. Believe me, everyone is always thinking about these things. It's just, our concern is not so much preserving or elaborating on the Philosophical Schools. Rather, we are trying to bring back the traditions, the rituals, the beliefs of the ancients, in short, and make them relevant to modern society. So I guess what I meant is that we are not concerned JUST with Philosophy. We are interested in the whole sphere of Hellenic life. EUN: What are some interests of modern Hellenes? SAN: Well, a lot of us are interested in rediscovering the forms of ritual that were practiced back then. Reviving the feasts and rituals that were lost to us. There are a lot of clues as to how things were done, a lot of scholarly commentary on it. Some really good work has been done on the subject, especially in regards to retrieving the sacred calendars, and trying to figure out when the traditional holidays would fall on our modern calendar. All very interesting, and all way beyond me. Also, retrieving Ancient Greek music and theater and poetry is of great interest to many, especially myself. It is very exciting to see all the work that is being done, to watch as the ancient ways are slowly resurrected. It is a great honor to be a part of it, to make my little contribution on behalf of the new Hellenic culture. The gods only know what the future holds in store for us. EUN: What would you say your contribution to this cause has been? SAN: Well, when I first got involved with it, actually before I learned that there were others interested in Hellenism, I planned on composing a Greek Bible. You see, unlike the Abrahamic faiths, the Greeks were not a People of the Book. Although they had their sacred stories and poetry, and this was considered Inspired by the Muses, it was never canonical, never a Message delivered from On High. Homer came the closest to this, and those that accepted the poems of Orpheus perhaps thought such things about his work, but they were never many, and much of Orpheus' work has been lost. So, I thought, why not write a Bible for the Greeks, setting down the myths, recreating rituals, writing prophecies, apocalypses etc. This was all before I knew about other Hellenes, you must remember, and I thought that I had to resurrect Hellenism all by myself. Yes, I realize how insane that sounds, how full of hybris I was. It is a painful experience to remember, but it is one that I have learned from, and so I cherish it, as I cherish all of my learning experiences. Well, long story short, the idea didn't work, it fell flat on it's face, and so did I. The gods gave me a great cosmic slap upside the head for being so arrogant and stupid, but they also showed me the way to finding other Hellenes. Now, I do not think that I have to resurrect Hellas all on my own (as if I could). Instead I can take my place beside other noble souls who seek to honor the Gods, one among many, no more special than the rest, no less special too. And since I don't have to do it all on my own, now that I can benefit from the work of other great men and women, the Muses have returned, and I can once more write. So, my contribution to the New Hellas will be in regards to poetry and philosophy. I still intend to write new works dealing with the old myths - but I no longer delude myself into thinking that they are Holy Scripture. The Greeks had no Bible, because they needed no Bible. EUN: That is all very interesting, and it sounds like you have come a long way. Is there anything else you'd like to tell the nice people who have been considerate enough to read all the way up to this point? SAN: Hmmm. . . well, I suppose I could talk about my thoughts concerning the gods, my special relationship with Dionysos, Hellenic Psychology and Daemonology, but I've already dealt with these issues in other pages. (In case you can't tell, I'm plugging my other sites, which can be accessed by clicking on the Sannion's Hellenic Religion link.) EUN: Yes, that is true. And you dealt with them very well, I might add. SAN: Thank you. I suppose I could talk about the other factors that contributed to my growth, things unrelated to religion. Like my interests in sex, politics, literature, and professional wrestling. EUN: Yes, you could. Do you want to? I wouldn't mind talking about your almost obsessive interest in Amy Dumas (WWF's Lita) or your unfounded fascination with awful horror movies. . . SAN: Hey, Full Moon films are not awful! Jacqueline Lovell is the best actress that ever lived. Ever! I won't hear anything bad said about her, especially if you try to say that she plays the same role each time. With a face like that, and that lovely fake southern accent, she can play that role as many times as she wants to! EUN: I stand corrected. But you do have all these other interests, things you have not dealt with thus far. Would you like to talk about that time you woke up in the sleazy Tiajuana hotel, out of your mind on ether and green tea, with the corpse of an under-aged prostitute and her pet goat in your bed? SAN: Damn it Eunomius, that's an unsubstantiated rumor, and I don't appreciate your bandying it about for all these folks to hear. Besides, the prostitute was only in a coma, not dead, and I will beat you with a horse-whip if you ever mention it again! EUN: Err. . . okay. I'm sorry. SAN: You should be. Sheesh. Next time I invent an alter-ego, I'm going to make sure he has some discretion. Anyway, I think this interview has gone on long enough. No need to bore people with the unimportant stuff. If they want those kind of details, they can contact me via E-mail, or just make them up themselves. So good night Eunomius, everyone, and may the gods bless and keep you and yours!